How broken are our food systems? podcast

Transcript

How broken are our food systems?

Rebecca Torr (RT): Hi, I’m Rebecca Torr, and welcome to the Emerald Podcast Series. Today, we’re tackling a critical issue—our broken food systems. Despite living in a world of abundance, over 9% of the global population still faces hunger. With the UN estimating that 2 billion people lack regular access to safe, nutritious food, it’s clear that something isn’t working. To help us understand where our food systems are failing and what can be done, I’m joined by Professor Sima Hamadeh, a leading researcher in public health nutrition, sustainability, and food systems, and Editor-in-Chief of Global Smart Food Systems, a new Emerald Open Access journal. Together, we’ll explore the key challenges facing our food systems, the role of technology, food literacy, and research in driving change, and what the future might hold for a more sustainable, equitable food landscape. Let’s dive in!

Sima Hamadeh (SH): Hello Rebecca once again, and thank you for having me. By definition, food systems encompass all the process, activities and actors involved in producing, processing, distributing, consuming and disposing all types of foods and beverages. And by that we mean that the food system will include everything from agricultural production, supply chain to enabling food policies, environment to consumer behaviour, waste management and cultural norm around food, our food. So indeed, food system are interconnected with many factors like environmental, social, economic and health factor shaping how food is accessed, assessed and its impact on people and the planet. To be frank, the concept of food system is not new at all, but however, in recent years, it has regained prominence amongst many key stakeholders, scholars, policy makers. And the question is, why probably, it's because they shape, and they are shaped, as I said, as I mentioned before, by other systems such as political, economic, social, cultural and health system. Indeed, the new interest in food system is the result of various concerns, let's say the political power, trade, economy, equity, sustainable environmental matters, dietary and health issues and so on.

And why they are important, as as I mentioned before, because they cover many things, and they have an impact on food security, on our nutrition, nutrition related and nutrition issues related to health, environmental sustainability, economic and social equity, public health matters, resilience. Resilience against crisis. And here, for example, the COVID pandemic, the pandemic that we lived a few years ago, the climate change conflicts, other conflicts that highlight the need to adapt for more resilient food systems. 
RT: Brilliant. Thank you so much. I think that that's really helpful, just to get an idea of of what we mean when we say food systems. Because it seems like, you know, we're in the 21st century, yet our world is still having this hunger issue and food security problem, and actually it seems to be increasing. It's not actually being solved. And you know, the UN think that around 2 billion people globally are without regular access to safe, nutritious and sufficient food, which is really worrying. And, you know, and I suppose that's why it is actually goal two of the UN Sustainable Development Goals to solve the problem of, you know, and Zero Hunger is obviously the focus we, you know, we want everyone to be able to eat, and, you know, and actually have access to food as they as they should be. And and so I just wonder what has happened to what happened to us, you know, how did we get into this mess? And sort of, who is to blame, what's to blame? And, you know, how are these food systems, which, okay, it's very complex, but how, how are they failing us?

SH: Yes, indeed, this is a very broad question, but yet very important. And. And probably to answer all these related questions to why our food system are failing us, and why we still have hunger around the world, we have to strengthen the link between the narratives that exist and the realistic world. And by that, I mean to consider the socio economic and cultural context, if we're going to call it or name it sociologzable scales. So by carrying such a critical review to these narrative to the stories, grey literature that exists everywhere, and the credible sources and the whole media channel. It's important to understand this link to more, let's say, understand the global food insecurity and the hungriness that still exists that we face today, which is a result of many, many historical, economic, political and environmental factors. So there is no single entity or event to blame, but a combination of systemic issues that had led to us to this point, for example, I'm gonna list a few of them, like colonialisation and exploitive agriculture system like the corporate control and the market concentration, for instance, large scale industrial agriculture prioritise the profit over food security, or favouring the cash crops over diverse and nutritious food. Also, we have the climate change and environmental degradation factor, the geopolitical conflict and trade policy, inequality and property, food waste and inefficiency. So by that, again and again, who's to blame? We don't have one one sector or one person or one factor to blame, because it's a result from a system built on historical inequalities, corporate interests, policy failures, environmental mismanagement, however, solution exists, and a lot of association, governments and different sectors, they are working toward that and shifting towards agroecological practices to reduce, for example, the food waste, or to prioritise the local food system, or at least to ensure a fair trade policy that can help to rebuild more resilient food future. 

RT: I just wondered, you know, I know you can't, obviously cover all of these problems and all of the people responsible, but I just wanted to give us a flavour of of sort of, you know, what are the steps being taken, you know? So what can be done? What do we do to transform our food system? You know, sort of, where do we start? Have we? I mean, have we done much so far? Have we? Obviously, we're recognising all these problems, but the drive to, you know, especially with the drive of, you know, Zero Hunger as one of our UN SDGs. I mean, I just wondered, you know, what is it that can be done, and where do we sort of start, really. 

SH: First of all, to take an integrated food system approach, and by that, I need to align agricultural production, trade, manufacturing, retaining and consumption priorities at all levels, to initiate a multi sectoral forum and also a multi stakeholder scenario to development process, to take also efficient actions in setting food systems on a trajectory towards healthy and sustainable development, to develop strategies and policies to handle trade off of change, also to guide the food system transformation all the way to arrive to what we mean to be in the future, and to evaluate food system in their context and in the global context. And again, here I want to mention we should think our to adapt the global approach. We have to work our local context, but by thinking globally, so it's not like something easy probably to do, we need this gap between the current and the desired food system is substantial enough to require a major transformative changes. For example, the poor food diet are the leading risk factor for poor health globally. Also food system are main contributor of other environmental problems. And here we talk about greenhouse gas emission, the loss of water, fresh water use, etc, and also the food production that drives air and water pollution, also land degradation, deforestation, biodiversity loss. So it is something to where, as you said, very complex, but we can make such change to make them more nutritious, or, let's say, nutrition sensitive, sustainable, to address the triple burden of malnutrition and the triple burden, it's the under, over and micronutrient deficiency that are related also to health and environmental problems. So it's not easy to do that, but we can do something, something about it, like, for instance, shift towards regenerative and climate resilient agriculture, build equitable food system, promote healthy and sustainable diet, reduce food waste and strengthen the circular economy, invest in policy and governance for food system transformation, leverage science innovation and technology and other things, also to include the community work. 

RT: Thank you. I mean, I think that gives us a really excellent overview of the ways that we can tackle this huge problem. And I mean, we obviously don't have long to to go into every single sort of aspect of this, but it would be really great if we can drill down into some of the solutions, some of the ways that we can at least tackle this huge problem. And so you mentioned innovation and smart technology and what role that could play in improving our food systems. So I was just wondering if you could, you could elaborate on that and, and obviously, you know, we're all talking about artificial intelligence, and I just wondered if, does that have a role in improving the food systems, and also augmented reality? I mean, that's being applied to lots of different areas of science at the moment, and just sort of visualisation techniques and how, I wonder if that has a role too. So perhaps you could sort of just sort of drill down into into that and sort of that as a way of us tackling this, this huge issue. Thank you. 
SH: We work with system as part of the private sector that depends on the market demand, which is now like driven by the AI and the smart technology. But at the same time, it required the leadership role of the public sector in designing and implementing policy that bridged the gap between the socio cultural goals, the culture nowadays, the market demand and trends. And also here we have the role of the the the NGOs and the civic sectors so they are. We have drivers like external, internal and AI and the smart technology was added lately to these types of all types of drivers that are from emerge from different sectors to make more and more such food system, more dynamic, behavioural system where stakeholders are engaged and responding differently to opportunities, risk, challenges, constraints that they are imposed either by the socio economical components, but also by the technology, the ethical part of technology, and other political components. So it's really crucial to differentiate between stakeholders in the industrial food system and in the local food system, because, you know, technology, it's more on industrial profit, and the local food system is more about equity health and access to healthy food. So if we come back to the AI and how they can affect our system indeed they affect big time our system. I'm going to give you examples related to AI alone, AR alone, just like to make it more easy for the audience, but both of them, even the metaverse, can significantly enhance the food system by acting on the whole food chain, as I mentioned before, from farm to fork, by improving efficiency, reducing waste, increasing transparency, supporting sustainable practice and so on. For instance, the AI and food system can help to work the precision agriculture or sustainable farming, and by doing that, they optimise, for example, irrigation, fertiliser use based on real time data, so it will decrease the risk of having these crops that are unhealthy, and we have all the time we detect crop disease and pest early, reducing pesticide dependence. For example, as well, AI driven drones can monitor the crop health and suggest targeted intervention, reducing input of waste and and other and many other examples to give. Also, they can optimise the food supply chain by reducing inefficiency and food loss in the supply chain, enhancing, for example, demand forecasting to prevent overproduction and shortage of food, or tracking food freshness and quality using smart sensors. Also they can AI can help to work the food innovation, or food tech innovation, and like the 3D footprinting or vitamins as well and supplementation, where it helps the personalised nutrition for each person based on their family history, their health, their situation. Also, they can provide us with alternative of food that mimic the initial product more accurately and improving consumer acceptance to such healthier food. Also, AI can reduce food waste by, for example, automating the expiration date tracking in grocery stores and homes. Also by the application, the AI driven application that connect restaurants with excess food, for example, to charities to reducing landfill waste, etc. Also they can help in the food safety issues and enhance food traceability, for example, by detecting contaminants and fruit and food product using AI analysis, scanners, etc. So these are few examples how AI can help in the whole food chain. Also AR had has a lot other applications, like for consumer engagement and increased food education among consumer by using the AR application, we can help consumer to make informed choices, for instance, by providing interactive nutrition labels when scanning food packaging, or, for example, showing carbon footprint and sourcing information in real time so they know this product is good for the environment or not, or by enhancing food literacy through immersive educational experience and so on. And it shows it has an impact, also from farm to fork in all these steps of the food chain. Also it helps as the same examples of AI and precision agriculture for smart, smart retail and restaurant activities, like, for example, trained Food Service Worker using AR assisted step by step guides and into. To summarise that indeed, the future of these smart technology by combining them, we can, we can transform food system by creating AI driven personalised nutrition plans with AR food visualisation for instance. 

RT: Thank you so much. I mean, I think that gives us all hope, doesn't it, that actually these new technologies can really transform the way that we we consume, the way we understand, the way we shop and and ultimately, you know, help us become sort of healthy and live, you know, live lives and in a better way when it comes to our relationship with food. And I think that's so interesting about, you know, sort of how it will help with sort of food safety, and, you know, over consumption and giving food waste, you know, to the right home. And I feel really excited about this. And, you know, and I think you mentioned, you just slightly touched on food literacy, and, you know, sort of how food literacy, I suppose, can play a role in and in changing our behaviours. Because you sort of mentioned, you know, sort of how AI can play a role in that. So I'm guessing maybe food literacy and sort of, you know, AI and AR are sort of related as well. And so I just wondered, you know, to start answering that question, what do we mean by food literacy anyway? And sort of, what can these sort of new technologies and food literacy in general do to help us change the way that we we interact with food, the way we shop, the way that restaurant you've mentioned, the way that restaurants tackle food waste and various issues. So yeah, it'd be really interesting. Thank you. 
SH: Yes, indeed. And the food literacy is really a powerful driver of behaviour change among consumer no matter if we are using the technology or not, we have different channels to increase food literacy by different types of communication. So it food literacy itself can lead to a healthier, more sustainable and ethical food choices, and it helps individual to navigate the food system, to make informed decision develop lifelong habits that benefit both the personal health and the environmental health as well. And by definition, it's food literacy is more than just knowing about food. It's about understanding, engaging with and acting on food related knowledge to improve individuals or community health, sustainability and food security. And here, there is a role of media, all types of communication, science journalism that will help to cover a lot of points, for example, by enhancing knowledge and awareness, the basic knowledge of nutrition, of reading labels, of understanding how such type of food will affect our health, our society, our environment, also by building capacities,  food skills, practical abilities to know the culinary skills, how to cook, what to use, how to decrease food waste, how to have a smart grocery shopping. And here, the effect of food literacy is also very big. How to work on the critical thinking and decision making of consumers by evaluating more and more all the food marketing and media messages and the industry claims, how to understand food social, environmental and ethical impacts of our our choices also to make this connection between culture and societal factors, to appreciate more and more the traditional and diverse food practices our local food, to recognise the role of food and social justice and equity, and how to encourage family and community engagement around food and traditional food. So how it drives such behaviour change, by having healthier eating habits by making better dietary choices, by reducing food waste, by supporting sustainable and ethical food choices, by choosing local, seasonal and sustainable food and indeed, the more we use applications, it's easier now because consumers are all the time connected to their mobiles and to their to the internet. So it's easy to increase such knowledge, but the most important thing is to have the credible knowledge there needs to integrate it to be integrated more and more into the traditional way of learning, like into schools, into curriculums and to in the workplaces and media and communication channels and public health policy. 

RT: Thank you. I mean, I think it's really interesting how you've described food literacy. I mean, it has such a practical element to it. So it's not just information. I mean, this is, how do we change our behaviours, how do we make the right choices, and how do we support change in systems as well? And I'd also like to tap into your other expertise, which is your research work, and obviously, you're the Editor in Chief of Global Smart Food Systems, which is a new Emerald, open access journal. And I was just wondering, because of your insight as an Editor of that journal, how does research play a role in transforming our food systems? And in your opinion, what research is really needed now, and what research are you calling for and in that journal in particular? 

SH: Yes, that's a really interesting question, actually, before being the Editor in Chief for this gold, open access journal, an innovative way of thinking or covering issues and research about global smart food system. I was working on a lot of topics related to that, and the most important thing is to, as I mentioned before, to shift the paradigm of the way we are thinking. And it's not only about agricultural matter or food security matter. So research is really critical to transform our food system. By providing the scientific evidence that also I mentioned before, we need credibility in all what we are mentioning, communicating. So by providing the scientific evidence, technological innovation, policy insights needed for more sustainable, equitable and resilient global food system, as well the research and the findings will help us to identify opportunities challenges and to evaluate interventions and guide more decision making across different disciplines, such as agriculture, nutrition, environmental health, climate matters, policy and technology. So if we gonna say what are the types or how we work such research, we need to to work on interdisciplinary, applied and policy driven studies in different areas, for instance, all types of studies or surveys or reports that are  covering agroecology, sustainable farming, climate adaptation, regenerative agriculture, climate, smart agriculture matters. Food security, indeed, nutrition research and here I'm talking more about nutrition economics. It's how the nutrition and the economics are interconnected together, also about food marketing. The market need, the ultra processed food and how much they are affecting our food systems and our environment, also about sustainable food innovation, as I mentioned before, alternative proteins. I'm not saying that we should shift from meat eater to plant based eater. But if we can help in some cases, we need that. So we need to work on this plant based diet, more or more on the added edible insect, seawood crops that will help in some countries, in some places, to fill the gap of protein deficiency. So indeed, research can drive a lot these food system to a better place. But if we can in our journal, for example, we are the new thing is how to we link all these disciplines together, from technology to economy, to fashion, and the impact of fashion by using more water, and how it's affecting also our food behaviour and food consumption. And maybe this is a new concept for people, but they are very related together, the fashion industry and the food industry, the media, the communication, science journalism, their impact on our food system, and vice versa. All, of course, we are covering all types of factors that affect the food chain, that is not anymore linear. It's circular, and it's a we need to work all these interdisciplinary and multidisciplinary approach to fill the gaps and to arrive to to our goals to have a better local and global food system. They are, as we said before, complex. They change all the time. Drivers are different. It depends from the market. It depends from any trend. But we are trying our best to fulfil these, to be updated, to be innovative, and to fulfil all the needs.
RT: Fantastic. Thank you. I mean, it's clearly a huge issue, involving many disciplines, and I think it's quite fascinating how you mentioned fashion and food and the food industry are sort of connected. And I guess we need to head over to the journal to have a look and find out a bit more about that. So think that's that's really interesting. I think we are running out of time, so we will move on to our last question. And I guess we've sort of looked a little bit about the history and sort of what's happening now and new technologies and what they potentially can offer. I think looking forward, how would you, what would you see is next for our food citizens? How do you think they will change over the next few years? Are you? Are you optimistic? Are you hopeful? You know, what do you think's next for us? 

SH: Well, I'm not going to say I'm very optimistic, because the goal nowadays, of all the industry is their own personal profit, not the health of the people, not the environmental health, not our the future of our planet, but at the same time, I don't want to be that much pessimistic. So I think we if we understand very well and the impact of globalisation of these trends and the fast evolution of many things, and if we can work all these key stakeholders, the new concept of food system like AI and technology like food intelligence, like food industrialisation, food business and branding or marketing, the consumerism that applied themselves new ways to work food system by applying innovative practices grounded on ecological approach, on our needs. And here we are talking more behavioural economics and to work the regenerative food system as well how to manage knowledge and exchange such knowledge in different ways, in a professional and ethical way, I believe that we can encounter dramatic shift in our food system that are driven by climate change and technological advancements, societal demands or other evolving policies. Our aim is to be more sustainable, equitable and resilient to adapt rapidly to such fast changing world. And indeed, there's a lot of work to do. We have to make it more visual, the win win situation for all sectors. How we can link it more and more to UN SDGs agenda that is, it's there. A lot of people are working towards that, but still, there's a lot of work to should be done by using such integrated approach that I mentioned before, and by sharing responsibilities, by redefining governance, as I said, they are more shaped by the private sector, but we need the leadership of the public sector, and we need the civic sector to work more on the ground. Indeed, and we didn't mention this before. We need an intergenerational participation and communication. And here is the role of Generation Z that will help us to make or to save our planet and to make a healthier food system, because they are the future, and by 2030 they gonna be 34% of the whole population taking care of their parents and the same time of their family, own families. They are students, worker and consumers, so they have a big role to help us to to transform our food system, to to be to be more nutritious, healthy, safety driven, productive and efficient. And just to sum it up, maybe over the next few decades, indeed, food systems will become more integrated with technology, healthier probably, climate conscious, if we work all together towards such goal, with more focus on local and sustainable practice. I think the combination of consumer driven behaviour change, technological advancement, supportive policy and sustainable practices will lead to be, to have a more equitable and resilient food future.

RT: That brings us to the end of today’s discussion on our food systems. A huge thank you to our guest, Professor Sima Hamadeh, for sharing her insights. If you’d like to learn more about the topics we covered, check out Global Smart Food Systems, a new open access journal exploring innovations and policies shaping the future of our food. You can find more information and a transcript of the episode on our website. A final thanks goes to Podcast Producer Daniel Ridge and the studio This is Distorted. This is Rebecca Torr, signing off. See you next time!